2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

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2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:43 am

[copying from ToyotaNation and continuing on here....]

Hi Cressida fans. I'll be swapping the engine below....


into my 1990 Cressida:


The car has 95k miles now and is really nice shape. It had 65k miles when I picked it up three years ago. There's nothing wrong with the original 7M/A340 that it left the factory with. Just not too exciting and it's pretty thirsty for the HP it makes. All stock except for the IS300 rims and MA70 rear struts.

This swap will take quite a while and there will be lots of issues to overcome. For one, I'll in Calif., and will be aiming to have the swap "Bar certified", which means all the emissions stuff has to be transferred over from the donor car. So don't look for rapid fire updates and this thing to be complete in a few weeks. It'll be more like 4-6 months. Follow along if you like. Questions and comments welcome.

And one other thing... Please don't suggest a 2JZ or 1UZ swap. These have been done and I've considered them. I'm not looking for huge power or V8 rumble. The 2GR (306HP stock) will be plenty fast compared to the 7MGE, and will get way better mileage to boot. Mainly I'm doing it for the fun and challenge of it.

Jim_K

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:50 am

I'll be using the A760E 6-speed auto from the IS350 as well, all controlled by the stock IS350 ECU. Here's a (partial) list of electrical issues I can see so far:

1) Immobilizer / alarm system - There is no actual ignition key for an IS350. Just a transponder fob and a start button. I'll have to transfer the security electronics and key antenna (in the start button) over to the Cressida. There are half a dozen "key antennas" all over the IS350, connected to a "Certification ECU" (alarm basically). This talks to an "ID Code Box" when tells the engine ECU if its OK to start. As far as I can tell you only need the main antenna in the start button. I won't actually use the start button for starting the car though. I'll keep the stock Cressy keyswitch and wire the "START" position in place of the IS350 start button.

2) Speedometer - The IS350 tranny has no mechanical speedo output. I've found a late 90s Camry speedo/odo that's driven by electrical pulses. It's compatible with the Cressy cluster with a little minor fab work to fit it. There's a "transmission output shaft" speed sensor on the IS350 tranny. I should be able to use this to drive the Camry speedo, probably with a Jaycar electronic speedo adjusting circuit to scale the output. I'll also use that to keep the Cressy ABS computer happy.

3) Gas Pedal - The IS350 uses an electronic throttle like most cars in the last 10 years. Just have to mount the IS350 pedal in place of the old mechanical one and run the wires to the ECU.

4) Cruise Control - The IS350 cruise control is handled by the ECU via the electronic throttle. The Cressy cruise control switch can be adapted to talk to the IS350 ECU.

5) ABS, Traction control, VDIM (Vehicle Dyanamics Integrated Management) - My Cressy has ABS and I'll leave that alone. I'm hoping that the IS350 ECU will be OK not seeing any signals from the electronic nanny systems. I'll keep all the electronics from my IS350 front clip just in case...


On the mechanical side most of the issues are the same as any other swap:

6) Engine mounts will be custom. Can't use the IS350 cradle, but the engine mounts themselves should be usable with custom brackets in the Cressida

7) Driveshaft - After getting the engine location finalized I'll send the old Cressida front section and the IS350 front section out to get a hybrid made.

8 ) Steering rack clearance - The 2GR-FSE uses a rear-sump oil pan that will totally interfere with the Cressy rack. Fortunatley the 2GR-FE (front wheel drive version of the engine) uses a front-sump setup. I have a 2GR-FE upper & lower oil pan + oil pick-up ready to swap on.

9) Exhaust manifold / steering shaft interference - This is the biggest question mark. Will modify the stock manifold if necessary. There won't be much choice in fore-aft positioning of the motor due to the steering rack / oil pan issue.

10) Power steering - The IS350 has no PS pump! It uses an electrical assisted rack. Fortunately several of the 2GR-FE powered Toyotas (like Camrys) do still use hydraulic PS pumps. I've got one of these on hand, but haven't seen if it will bolt up to the FSE engine or if some custom bracketry will be needed. Either way the direct-injection fuel injection ECU that's mounted on the front of the engine will have to be moved enough to clear the belt and idler pulley for the PS pump.

That's all for now. I'll expand on each of these areas as I come to them.

Jim_K

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:55 am

Finally got the engine out last weekend. Dropped it out the bottom after removing the cross member and steering rack. Seemed easier than trying to hoist it out the top.

Empty bay; Engine dropped


Lifting the front of car up with engine hoist


Front WAY up in air, engine ready to roll out


Now I have to clean the greasy gunk off of everything so I have a clean working area for test fitting the 2GR in to figure out clearances to the cross member/rack and steering shaft.

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:59 am

Got the engine/trans located as best as possible. I say "best as possible" since there's no way to get it in there without some custom work, but nothing too bad to deal with.



I've got it sitting as high as possible while still being able to close the hood. The throttle body pushes into the underhood insulation a little, but that stuff's about 1/2" - 3/4" thick before you get to the actual metal of the hood. That's the highest point all the stuff forward clears easily. Obviously the Lexus vanity cover can't be used.


View of the upper oil pan from the passenger side, with the cross member out. Even with the engine as high as it is, I'll have to lower the cross member 3/8" and trim the 2GR-FE upper oil pan to clear the steering rack (red circle). I'll also have to notch a corner 2GR-FE lower oil pan to clear the cross member, but not too much (green line). One of the rack hardlines also interferes with the bell housing and will have to be redone.


I was hoping (in vain) that the LH exhaust manifold would miss the steering shaft. No such luck, but it's not hopeless. I won't have to make a custom manifold. Just need to add a dogleg to the stock manifold between the collector and the cat, moving the cat a little bit.

There's plenty of room in front of the engine for the radiator and some electric fans. The 2GR-FSE engine mount brackets line up almost perfectly with the cross member with this engine location. I'll be able to use the stock MX83 mount rubbers with some simple-to-make 1/8" steel plate adapters to bolt down to the cross member.

More later.

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:03 am

Did some more jiggering around with the engine to get it perfectly centered and level.



With the fore-aft location I settled on, the IS350 mounts line up with the Cressy cross member almost perfectly... except the mount centers line up about 1.5" further out than the mounts on the 7M.



You can't use the IS350 rubbers because they're too tall. The Cressy rubbers will do fine. Just had to drill a new hole in the IS350 bracket for the locating pin on the Cressy rubbers. I've got adapters cut out of 1/8" sheet steel and bent up. Just need a little welding of some gussets.

For the transmission I got lucky at last. The Cressy has a bunch of extra threaded holes for mounting the trans cross member in about 4 different fore-aft locations. Flipping it around and moving it up a couple holes and it lines up with the IS350 tranny great. The IS350 tranny mount will fit with the holes redrilled in the Cressy trans cross member and a 1/8" or so spacer.

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:16 am

FINALLY got the engine in the bay where it needs to be. I screwed up on my first set of mounts, which made the engine sit 1/4" too high. So I had to make a 2nd set. Ugh. I didn't get the angle right on the mounts. The mounting angle on the Cressy cross member does not match that of IS350 engine brackets although it looks the same at first glance.

Here's the Cressy trans mount with new holes drilled to mate up with the IS350 transmission bracket (top of pic). Just needed about 5/16" extra space between the mount and the bracket to get the tranny at the right height. The red paint is just some touch-up paint I used to stop rust on the trimmed / drilled / grinded spots.


Here you can see the multiple tranny cross member mounting holes that the Cressy has. The two green arrows are the holes used for the 7M+A340. The new style rubber coupler doughnut thing has at least 1/2" clearance to the tunnel walls (red lines).



I'll be using all but the last few inches of the IS350 two-piece driveshaft. Luckily the center bearing support lines up with the mounting holes on the Cressy chassis. Just have to measure it up and have The Driveshaft Shop splice the differential flange from the Cressy shaft onto the 2nd section of the IS350 shaft. [edit] I *may* be able to use the complete IS350 shaft! I have a 3-bolt differential input flange from a JZA80 on the way. If the spline is compatible, then I should just be able to swap it for the old style 4-bolt MX83 flange and be good to go.



Now I'm onto getting the LH manifold to play nice with my steering shaft. I cut the stock manfold just behind the AFR (O2 sensor) bung. Just need to introduce a little detour here to get around the steering shaft, and I should be able to keep the cat lined up w/o and need to modify the B-pipe. There actually about 2" between the cut on manifold and the steering shaft. A 2" OD, 3" CLR stainless U-Bend will take care of this. [edit] Getting the cat to fit back in there after detouring around the steering shaft did require shortening the LH B-pipe a few inches and re-angling the flange.



The RH manifold/cat fit up just fine w/o interfering with anything. Heck, the entire B-pipe (with the 2 secondary cats) may sit under the car w/o needing any changes, at least back to where the Cressy's resonator is. Fingers crossed! [edit] The entire B-pipe does sit under the car when bolted straight up to the RH manifold, but the rear resonator head off in the wrong direction so that'll have to come off. Sits about 1/2" lower than need be, actually. The hood on the IS must actually be taller than the Cressida's. Not slamming this car, so ground clearance might not be a problem.


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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:20 am

Driver side (left hand) exhaust manifold modified to fit around the steering column. Used a couple sections of a 2" stainless U-bend. It's just tacked up now. Going to take it to a "real" welder to do a proper job. (Previously) mirror image RH manifold shown for comparison.



Cressy rear driveshaft section on top. IS350 rear section on the bottom with middle joint and mid-shaft "slipyoke". I'll have the rear U-joint and flange from the Cressy rear section grafted onto the IS350 rear section, essentially using all but the rear 3-bolt flange of the IS350 driveshaft.  [edit] As mentioned above, I may be able to swap a 3-bolt input flange into the Cressy differential and use the entire IS350 driveshaft as-is (except for center bearing). [edit #2] Flange swap is no go... Newer RWD Lexus use a companion flange spline that's bigger than the Cressy, and the MKIV Supra TT 6spd uses and even bigger one.



Last edited by Jim_K on Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:24 am

Finally moving on to swapping the FE timing chain cover onto the FSE block. As mentioned, I need to do this in order to use the 2GR-FE power steering pump. The FSE timing chain cover lacks the necessary mounting bosses, as well as the mounting boss for the extra idler pulley (RED outline on FE timing chain cover).

First the FSE timing chain cover:


Now the FE timing chain cover:

The GREEN circled mounting holes don't mate up with the FSE block, and will have to be blocked off. The BLUE circled bolt hole doesn't line up and I'll have to do without it.

The FE and FSE water pumps are a different enough that I have to use the FE water pump. But I have to use the FSE thermostat housing, which is completely different than the FE housing. You can see how it will sit on the FE timing chain cover and water pump here:


Of course two of the three bolt holes for mounting the t-stat housing to the water pump are off by a bit. Why the heck did Toyota engineers decided to move these?? I'll re-drill/slot the holes in the FSE thermostat housing, and use a circular metal plate to bolt the housing down. The FE timing chain cover also lacks the bosses for the upper two mounts on the FSE t-stat housing. I'll have to fab something up there.
Working on those mounting bits now...

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:32 am

Continuing on here from ToyotaNation...

I got the thermostat housing mounting sorted out, then slacked off for a few months.  I did manage to do a little "fun" stuff during that time.  Since the valve covers were off, I decided to add a little bling to what will otherwise be an OEM looking install.







The stock Lexus vanity cover wont fit under the Cressy hood, so I thought sprucing up the dirty bare aluminum valve covers couldn't hurt.  It's just VHT red crinkle finish engine paint.

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:58 am

The hybrid engine reassembled and ready for final fitment check.


I need to double check driveshaft measurement. Measure twice, cut once... Will also be able to lay out the wiring harness splice lengths and routing whiles its in there. But I'll do the actual splicing/soldering, etc. on the bench.

Here's the custom PS pump mount to get the 2GR-FE PS pump to mount up on the 2GR-FSE block.


The 2GR-FE dipstick tube also bolts up with a little tweaking to get around the FSE LH engine mount.

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Push on Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:39 pm

Cool project, looking forward to updatees.
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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Kryssie on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:56 am

This looks awesome, subbed for updates xD

Its been a lil while, how'd you get on with it?

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by Jim_K on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:53 am

Still working on it. Taking my time. Got everything mechanical set up. On the wiring now. Not simple.

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Re: 2GR-FSE into MX83 swap thread

Post by forgottenzone on Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:14 am

Nice work. Man. Keep it up.
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